OK, so.

[porphyrin]

Having never held a 'real job', I need some advice.

Do those sound like /poor/ fringe benefits or *good* fringe benefits?

1. BCBS coverage for the entire family, with any visits to any doctors at any of the St. Cloud Medical Group clinics being gratis (imaging other than plain X-ray is not gratis, but is covered by BCBS)

2. 401 K which you are eligible for after your first year (okay, 17 months because of the enrollment period) with 12 funds to choose from, and the employer matches 75 cents to the dollar, fully vested after 6 years (0%, 20%, 40$, etc), plus any quarterly profits being placed in the 401K after the first year

3. Life insurance-- 20K worth.

4. Disability insurance-- 4-6K of portable insurance and then non-portable to 65% of your income.

5. All moving expenses paid for.

6. 5 paid sick days. 16 vacation days. 4 Continuing Medical Education days (count as vacation).

7. $3K toward continuing medical education expenses.

8. $1K to cover your choice of dental & optical plans for the year.

Maybe I'm just razzle-dazzled by my first job offer ever?

Comments

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

I'd take it. *g*

[merriehaskell.livejournal.com]

It's not bad. It's also not the best evah.

(We get $2 for every $1 up to 5% of our income in 401k (which means you can sock away the equivalent of 15% of your salary every year), which begins a month after you sign up; 15 sick days; at least 12 vacation days, if not 24 (depends on your job class and your seniority); and our choice of half a dozen HMO's or insurance deals, including BCBS; all kinds of dental and vision options; 5 times your salary in life insurance; full disability; tuition reimbursement of about $1200 a term.) So, that's University of Michigan, and as far as I know, doctors and regular library peons such as myself are extended the same benefits.

On the other hand, we are paid for shit.

Duke University has a very similar plan, according to my mother (who is on the nursing staff)--slightly less salary matching in the 401k, slightly more in the tuition plan (actually a lot more--they paid my mom $10k a year for me to go to college). They had better benefits 10 years ago (more sick/vacation days, and lately, sick/vacation have been combined into "personal time" but they are still pretty good).

Considering these are the two workplace benefits-systems I know... I don't know. It could be a luck of the draw sampling, and I just happened to be lucky. But I thought you should know that there are better options out there.

Of course, that isn't bad (it's about on par with what my brothers-in-law get with corporate America) and if you've been paying through the nose for insurance, or relying on student-level insurance, or just not having any... then yeah. What Bear said.

[tanaise.livejournal.com]

They look like good deals to me. Possibly not the best of all possible benefts, but definately not poor by a long shot. My last job, which had pretty much fabulous benefits from all accounts, the only real differences was that it matched my salary in life insurance, and let me pay into the retirement fund from the start (well, after the first 6 months, i think), but in my case that meant only a bit more insurance than you're getting and the office turnover was high enough that if they'd had more than a 6 month probationary period no one would get any retirement.

The only things I can think to ask are do you get your vacation days as a lump sum or eeked out over pay periods? ie, if you start work January 1st, will they give you your 25 days and in theory you could use them all up by February, or do they give you 6 hours a pay period, and you save them up till you get as much as you need? In a related question, will you get more vacation days over time? ie, next year 18, 3 years 20, stuff like that?

[porphyrin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and that's one of the wierd things about medical work.

So I could take my vacation *whenever*, as long as there are 3 pediatricians in the office at any given time. And vacation is, um... production based, really.

So basically you see as many patients as you want. You work as much or as little as you want, and you are paid on that basis. The only requirement is that you work 75% time or greater: that is, 3 days a week or more.

If I *wanted* to take 8 weeks of vacation, nobody would stop me. It would mean a pay decrase of 10-20%, but I could do it if I wanted. Nobody keeps track.

[markgritter.livejournal.com]

Some are good, some not so good. My employer has, I think, "good" benefits. We use a flex dollar system, so Sun pays a portion of some benefits and more than covers others.

The 401(k) is not so good to start--- there is really no reason not to let you be eligible as soon as the enrollment comes around. Sun Microsystems matches 1-1 for the first 3% and 50% for the next 2% of salary, with no vesting period. Kealia did not match at all, but you could enroll without waiting a year (well, other than waiting for them to _get_ benefits at all, but that's another story.) If you think you'll be there long term, then the higher matching might make this OK (but is there a cap?)

$20K life insurance is not very much. The basic rate at Sun is $50K, but we paid a little extra a year (around $75 after-tax dollars) for 2x salary. Kealia provided 2x salary at no cost (although it was taxable).

Disability of 65% is pretty good. I carry 50%, which is completely covered by Sun (with some flex dollars left over.)

16 vacation days right away is pretty good. Sun starts new hires at 10 days, and after 3 years bumps it to 15 days.

I don't know how far the $1K dental + optical will go. We pay about $250/year (pre-tax dollars) for coverage with Sun picking up the other $1000/year. Kealia provided both without cost.

Not paying for health care is a big win; we pay about $1600/year (pre-tax).

I also get stock options (worthless now) and can participate in the stock purchase plan. There is also a tuition benefit for up to $5000/year and a host of smaller benefits (many of which I can't use because I'm not in the Bay Area.)

Like I said, I consider Sun good, and it's obviously a different field entirely.

I'm trying to remember the benefits talk I got when applying to UW-Oshkosh, but not coming up with much in the way of details. The benefits seemed comparable to what you list, but the big difference was participating in the UW pension plan rather than a 401(k).

[chance88088.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how this rates in your field - but this is my assessment based on general white collar employment:

Do you have to contribute for the family health insurance or is that fully covered? (If you pay nothing, extremely good. Otherwise depends on your contribution)

Do you pay for the disability insurance? (If you pay nothing, extremely good. Otherwise depends on your contribution)

The 401k sucks, both the vesting and the waiting period. Unfortunately, this is probably no negotiable because it is almost certainly part of the plan rules.

Life insurance is pitifully low.

Moving expenses is standard.

Sick leave is fairly standard for these days, but still crappy. Is the continuing medical educations days in addition to the 16 days or part of? In addition, then vacation is pretty good, part of, then mediocre.

The education expenses seem pretty weak.

The one k for dental and optical plans seems not bad.

Overall I'd rate the package on the low end of average/mediocre.

[retrobabble.livejournal.com]

Ok, I have to step in here.

The 401k is looks pretty good from the small business perspective (you can expect .50-1.00 matching, if there is anything at all, and most plans I've ever seen have a year wait before entry); all moving expenses is also good. The dental and optical is a little low and so is the life insurance. (says the person who typically doesn't get either in her field.)

What do the countable out-of-pocket perks run up to? Depending on how far you move, moving expenses can run anywhere from $ 1,500.00-$7,000.00 or more.(Yes, they do; remember where I moved from. *g*)

Whether it's indicative of a standard offer in your field, I don't know. But it sounds good for a first offer to me.

sorta good sorta bad

[svb1972.livejournal.com]

btw, honestly life insurance at work is useless.. it's worse than useless its' actually BAD not matter how much it is.. even if its a $2million policy on every employee it's BAD. All work life insurance ends when you leave work. Do you know how hard it is to get life insurance when you're in your 40's and 50's? You should get your life insurance NOW..
get private life insurance, it's not that expensive.. I have 250K for about $20 a month..

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

Having handled all the medical insurance and other benefits over the years, I have to agree with Chance. What she said is true. If they are covering all the costs of the medical insurance for the family, that's good. Not having dental and vision is not so good, even with them kicking in 1k each year. One root canal and one crown can eat up more than 1K.

The 401K does take too long to vest, but you can always start your own retirement fund on top of it. And if you leave this group, all the money you put into the 401k and all the value it earns is still yours. So you don't really lose anything by joining, even if you aren't there long enough to be vested. The company money is not really yours until you're vested anyway.

Is the paid vacation time the same forever? Does the time you are paid for increase the longer you're there? With most companies, it does, reaching some set maximum. I'd check on that.

And all of this, of course, depends on how much money they are offering you too. If the money is stellar, than not great benefits can be worked around.

Keep in mind, all the plans I've ever been a part of were in Silicon Valley, so my view may be a little skewed. *g*

hmm.

[cpolk.livejournal.com]

1. got you beat, but i'm canadian. comrade!

2. RRSP contributions up here, and the usual thing is matched dollar for dollar, after a three month probabtionary period.

3. life insurance - about the same.

4. disability insurance - depending on disability, and then 66.666% of your income as pension.

5. moving expenses paid if the company wanted to relocate me.

6. 10 paid sick days, 15 paid vacation days, and ten days of flex time per year. (this was GENEROUS and unusual.)

7. about the same toward retraining expenses.

8. 100% prescription drug coverage (INCLUDING birth control methods,) 80% coverage on all dental work to $5000, $300 a year for chiropractic appointments, the same for therapeutic massage, 100% coverage for physiotherapy with doctor's referral, $200 a year for glasses contact lenses OR hold all optical expenses for five years and get that money towards laser surgery, if elective - (to correct cataracts or reverse a vision deterioration problem was covered.) $600 a year for counseling and therapy.

if i had to stay in a hospital, i could get a semi private room for nothing or a private room for 32 dollars a day. tv and phone not covered, nice try.

one million dollars of medical coverage if i needed to be hospitalized in the states.

that was for a single person. if i had a family, the money would be higher.

but keep in mind that we have a lot of basic medical needs covered automatically - that means extended health insurance is a lot more luxurious here.

[littleowl.livejournal.com]

That sounds great to me.

I have more "vacation" days but they're not pure vacation - they're "paid time off" which means that sick and vacation come out of the same pool.

I'd check on whether or not you get those days up front or they have some stupid accrual rate thing even if you're salaried.

The medical bennies sound a lot better than almost anything I've had in 7 years of corporate work, except for my first 2.5 years of employment.

I started out with the best benefits package ever at my first job and it's spoiled me forever ... sick days at your discretion ... 5 weeks of paid vacation, 100% coverage health plan ... and the best employee matching program I've had to date for the 401K.

[littleowl.livejournal.com]

Oh also ... all moving expenses paid?

Sorry but in my experience, that's -rare- that it'd be covered at all unless you're very very wanted.

So IMHO, that's a big bonus.

We wangled an advance to move out to California from SuSE back in the day, but I have -never- gotten relo expenses from ANY other employer and most places I have applied but not gotten a job have also stated up front that the do not offer them.

[matastas.livejournal.com]

Ah, the sound of two more cents...

1. Sounds great. Not to sound cynical, but I would expect no less. You guys are doctors, after all.

2. This is the weakest point. The eligibility time is kinda long, and the vesting time is horrible. At least they match, which isn't a guarantee, anymore. From your words, it sounds like any profit sharing is dumped into the 401(k): you don't pay taxes on it, but you can't touch it. I like my bonuses in cold, hard, valid US currency vs. 401(k) dumps, but that's me. Again, my perspective is more mid-to-large business, and many small businesses are not as generous on the retirement side.

3. Poor. Half of that will get eaten putting you in the ground, and doesn't leave much to make up for your lost wage (generally the point of life insurance). I've seen a lot of multiple-of-base-salary, with the option to buy more. Fortunately, I've never seen it executed.

4. I've never had portable disability, but the 65% is typical (in my experience) for non-portable. Check the duration of coverage.

5. Fantastic. Find out what the cap is, and what is considered a moving expense (closing costs?).

6. I like Paid Time Off (PTO) myself, which is sick/vacation/personal all rolled up ('cause I rarely get sick), but you have the flexibility of not working when you don't want to, so. Three weeks to start is above average, for vacation.

7. I've seen the gambit from nothing to full tuition and in-between. If this is reasonable from the standpoint of your continuing education needs, then there you are.

8. Cool. Dental and optical are a lot cheaper than health, so I guess you'll just have to shop it.

In addition, you have the benefit of a very flexible schedule (from the sounds of it), which is worth its weight in gold, in your case. How much value that has is up to you. And yes, you are razzle-dazzled: the first-ever job offer always looks great, 'cause it has that 'they want me!' shine on it. Doesn't mean you aren't worth it, and in fact, I'd wager you're worth more (you almost always are). Just remember that everything is negotiable, so if you want something, ask. The worst they'll say is no.

Hmm...

[dlandon.livejournal.com]

Actually, don't be razze-dazzled :) Everything except the 401K bit sounds good, but making you wait a year to contribute is ridiculously long! Most employers only make you wait a month, and the majority allow you to contribute right away. What that means is that you'll have to be really, really good about putting aside the 10-20% you decide you want to save *yourself* so that when you become eligible it's not this huge surprise chunk of your paycheck. Based on this alone, and how important saving for retirement can be, I'd see what other offers you can get.

I meant to email but didn't get the time at the library - I take it this means the interview went well? Yeah!

- D

[chance88088.livejournal.com]

So, a couple more comments on the sick/disability/vacation thing.

What's the waiting period before the disability kicks in? (And if you are permanently disabled, will it last until retirement age? Is there a maximum lifetime amount you can collect?)

(Frex, my company has a combination of short term/long term disability. The short term kicks in after 30 days and lasts for 6 months, where the long term disability kicks in, and can last until retirement. (The idea being that you use your sick leave (or vacation) to bridge the first 30 days.)

Do the sick and vacation time accrue? Is there a maximum it will accrue to? or is it use it or lose it?

The other thing I wonder about is your malpractice insurance? Is that carried by the practice? (I have no idea what is standard in your industry.)

Probably the best way to get a feel of how the benefits compare with others in your industry (and of the type of firm you want to work for) is to line up some more interviews and ask a lot of questions about the benefits.

Though in the end, I've never decided to take a job or not based on the benefits, as long as they were ok (and these seem to be).

Benefits

[(Anonymous)]

Congratulations! Job offers are exciting, aren't they?
Health coverage looks very generous.
401k vesting time seems long.
Life insurance is on the low side, but that can easily be supplemented, and should be since you are the primary wage earner.
Another point is the sick time. As you are a parent, if you need to stay home with Roo, can you use your sick time? I know that for David and myself we use quite a bit of sick time not so much for ourselves, but to stay home with the kids and five days sounds on the low side to cover that.
Vacation time sounds good, but does the 16 vacation day include paid holidays? I'm just asking because I think most places will start you with ~two weeks vacation plus around seven to ten paid holidays. However, since you can be full time at four days a week, this may be less of an issue.
Education money is important and $3k sounds low if you intend to take much for school. Right now David is taking about 6 graduate credits a year through the U and the bill is larger than our $5k limit.
Since we have an HMO that covers most expenses, I can't comment on the coverage for dental and optical other than to say the opticals usually don't cover all the expenses.
And the malpractice insurance question is an important one to ask.

Take care and good luck.

Heathah

Re: Benefits

[(Anonymous)]

Something else in benefits also occurred to me. What are their policies on maternity leave? This may not be something you're worried about, but I've taken full advantage of it myself for two children. Is there any pay coverage, how long can you be out, etc.? For me temporary disability covered 6 weeks of maternity time off and then I could use sick time or go without pay for up to 12 weeks. There's the FMLA that requires companies bigger than, I think 20 employees, to allow people to take this much, but if the practice is smaller than this you could have some issues.

At any rate, take care.

Heathah